Gamernode: News - The Xbox 360. You love it. You hate it.

"But let's face it, this is the 21st century where electronics are some of the most reliable products that consumers can buy."

Pardon me while I go out back and laugh out loud. Electronics are by far the LEAST reliable and future-proof products one can buy, period.

I'm not making an excuse for the hardware failures of some 360s, but I find that quoted comment above to be completely off-base.

The stereo thing-- they've had DECADES now to perfect the architecture of such a rudimentary device (and, apparently, still haven't, last stereo tuner I bought had to be exchanged for a new one, due to it not working AT ALL), and comparing something as such to an electronic architecture that gets rebuilt and overhauled into something completely new every 5 years is not a valid comparison, IMO.

My new phone? I'm on the third new handset, due to failures of the SD card slot on the last two models.

Last three DVD players bought would hardly play a movie, and would overheat and begin skipping less than halfway through each DVD. It took four, yes, FOUR tries to find a basic player that would reliably work.

Given the (non)reliability of my most basic electronic devices, the fact that something as complex as the 360 works at all is a reason to celebrate for me.

Dare I mention my two PC disk drives that have failed in two years?
My portable CD players on which the buttons stopped working within a year?
The 4 year old TV on which the tube apparently went south and turned the entire screen varying shades of blue?

All these problems, and I consider myself fairly kind to my electronics. A scratched game disk is a rare sight among my collection, and nothing collects dust or is privy to electronic-abuse tendencies of many others. Either I'm just horribly unlucky, or electronics are generally unreliable.

Your call.

Sure there are electronics that fail...but they're "some of the most reliable" items out there. When you consider all the zillions of things that you can buy, for the most part, they are pretty reliable products. You only notice the things that don't work of course.

We probably use hundreds of things daily that are electronic in nature and take them for granted because they don't break.

But in any event the idea of a product not being able to function properly for at least a year is unacceptable regardless of whether it's a disk drive or a cell phone. If you consider yourself lucky that "something as complex as the 360 works at all is a reason to celebrate," I won't be joining the party.

Fanboyism aside, facts are facts...the Xbox 360 needs fixing.

Needs fixing? I don't disagree. I still find fault with the "electronics are one of the most reliable things you can buy," which I find to be incredibly untrue.

Granted, "electronics" signifies a pretty broad assortment of various products, especially in these days, so if you're thinking things like refrigerators, microwaves, remote controls, and digital watches, sure, I can agree that these most basic of day-to-day devices are generally reliable. Not so much the case with everything else. The functionality and more "technologically sophisticated" micro devices and daily-use items like portable players become, the more prone to failure they are. It's almost so logical, it's true!

If anything, I'd almost say that electronics NOW are LESS reliable (and more easily broken) than they were 10, even 20 years ago...

I just don't get why I have to be on my 4th 360! The first one (had at launch) failed right before the warranty was up. The replacement they said died one month later. So, instead of fixing that one ($160 charge) I traded the broken one to gamestop for a crappy amount of cash, and got a new one. That one died after a few days of Halo. I was smart enough to buy a replacement plan (they don't sell for 360's anymore, because of faliure rate) so, here we are now. I am meticulous about care for my electronics. I still have a working snes,genesis,ps1,n64,ps2,and an xbox. My old pentium 2 computer still runs as well. I even have a 10 year old tv. I don't ever use it, because my 40 inch flatscreen rules, but I could if I so chose. Now, my launch ps2 did die, but only after 6 years. I love the 360, but every friend I have has had one die except for my friend Addy. I just think that this is unacceptable.

My ps1 has some disk read errors, but come on, it is an antique.

why arent these things put in columns, and not news reports?

I'm with rtanger. Electronic devices, as they get more and more complex, are failing more and more often. That's not an excuse for the 360 of course. But there's a reason the big box stores sell so many product warrantees (besides gullible customers).

The 360 is an extreme case of high failure rates. But the very fact that MS still DOES have their fans is a strong argument for the case that the regular failure of consumer electronic devices is now the rule, and not the exception.

I don't know about this reliability either. Malfunctions in my car are electronic-related, there was a power out at work which caused the inability for the workers to work was electronic-related, my graphics card died last week which was electronic related, my cell phone's battery was not charging as much which was electronic related... my vertical blinds never fail me, my glass windows never fail me, my sofa is sturdy, my front door has never fallen off my house. I'd go so far that electronics is the most faulty object on the planet.

either that or the 360 as a whole product is just that good and when people find that it doesn't work they just get that worked up over it. People want to do what they want to do and when they cannot, well... anything can happen.

personally i also agree with rtanger... the only televisions that i've heard lasting for 10 to 15 years are tube televisions. many rear projection televisions you have to spend about 200 to 300 every year or 2 just to make sure they work... i have also gone through a number of dvd players (i believe i got one of the early-ish ones that worked for 4 years, then when that one went i had to go through at LEAST 5 or 6 before i found that the one that my parents had from several years ago works great). Don't get me started on vcr's and mp3 players (again, i've gone through 5 of each). a long while back i got a computer from alienware that even they couldn't get to work right. i'm on my third digital camera as well.

as far as the xbox is concerned though... i got my elite on day 1 and it has been working perfectly for me (though i've heard they stress tested those parts a bit better...).

To battle rtanger's point, my old 24'' hitachi tv lasted like 13 years.

I love to hate it and hate to love it...

My 360 has never had any problems for the 3 years I've had it. Guess I'm lucky...?

I've been around a long while. I remember a time when electronics lasted forever. I still have a Sony TA-1130 stereo amplifier, purchased in 1975. It still works. Discrete components all around, MOSFET output transistors on enormous heatsinks, and it weighs about 20 lbs. My Pioneer FM tuner of similar vintage also still works, though it hasn't seen any use in a very long time.

Now, electronics have been cheapened to such a degree that they can't be depended on as they once were. They're still generally reliable, but the difference is very apparent to me. Even in that context, the defectively designed Xbox 360 stands out as an unacceptable product. It is clear to me now that every single 360 made before the Falcon revision will fail prematurely due to its poor design. (And I'm not saying that the Falcon update cured the problem I simply don't have any information to reach a conclusion about it yet.)

Mine RRoD'd last month. MS promptly replaced it free of charge, to their credit. However, I have no faith in this unit sitting nearby. I assume it too will fail way sooner than anything like it should.

"It is clear to me now that every single 360 made before the Falcon revision will fail prematurely due to its poor design. (And I'm not saying that the Falcon update cured the problem I simply don't have any information to reach a conclusion about it yet.)"

Folks, this is an example of a hasty generalization fallacy. See, when you say every unit will fail, you are wrong. My unit is fine. My friend's unit is fine. I'm sure there are thousands of people on the planet unaffected. So, in effect, that's not every single unit, is it?

So, while thousands are unaffected, 10's of thousands or more are,. I don't know, maybe you people are fine with 33+ % failure. I'm just not. My 360 library is worth at least 500 dollars. That is why I keep getting a new 360 (that and Ninja Gaiden 2, gears of war 2, and Splinter cell conviction.) I think the 360 has the best game line up in its first 2 years than any system except the snes. But as cobra says, it is a matter of using cheap, or poorly designed electronics. If you do not vote with your gaming dollars, you will become part of the problem (damd you Ninja Gaiden II). I wish there was a way to keep my great games and protest this MS punch to the face while supporting MS's great game lineup and customer service. I am so confused.

"Folks, this is an example of a hasty generalization fallacy. See, when you say every unit will fail, you are wrong. My unit is fine. My friend's unit is fine. I'm sure there are thousands of people on the planet unaffected. So, in effect, that's not every single unit, is it?"

Not yet. I'm convinced that if those units continue to get normal usage, they will fail prematurely, some later than others.

While I don't believe that electronics are by any means the most reliable products we can buy, I do agree that the quality of the Xbox 360 is mediocre at best. It also happens to have a few of my favorite franchises on it. Like ninjalegend said, it'd be great to be able to support the games, their developers and the customer service, but not the faulty hardware. Having a piece of equipment fail within a few months is unfortunate, having it fail twice is ridiculous.

I've logged on average about 3 hours a day on mine for 3 years. No problems yet. My friend spends a lot more time playing with his. No problems. In fact, the only person that I know in person that had his system fail inadvertently blocked the air vents. These systems were bought, by the way, the month the 360 was released.